Jared Saef (Class of 2024) interviewed by Rhea Chandran (Class of 2023)

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Alright, so it's June 15th. My name is Rhea Chandran in the class of 2023 conducting an interview as part of the documenting student life oral history strike project. So, could you just begin by stating your name and your class year?

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Jared Saef: My name is Jared Saef, and I am part of the class 2024.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Thank you, and where are you from?

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Jared Saef: I’m from Chicago.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And what is your intended major?

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Jared Saef: Growth and Structure of Cities at Bryn Mawr.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And do you identify as a student of color?

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Jared Saef: No.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Ok. And are you first-gen student?

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Jared Saef: No

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Rhea Chandran: Okay, and if comfortable, could you describe your socioeconomic status?

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Jared Saef: Upper middle class.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And were you on campus or remote this year?

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Jared Saef: I was on campus.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And just generally what made you choose Haverford as your college?

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Jared Saef: I chose Haverford because I went to a high school that operated under the philosophy of progressive education and central to that was student agency and student voice. So as part of my high school's curriculum, we had a very central founding in our student government process which was run by students and maintained and upheld by students. And this was part of our larger school philosophy of student voice and student self-agency, and students really take taking a stand to shape the community that they are a part of. And what attracted me most about Haverford was the same idea of student voice and student’s self-agency and their stake in the community. So, I was particularly attracted by the idea of the Honor Code, that this idea of mutual trust and respect was upheld by all members of the Community, rather than being enforced by some higher authority and the degree to which students had a say and a real, tangible impact on the community that they are a part of.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that. And to transition just talking about the strike, I wanted to ask you what your initial reaction was to the email that President Raymond and Dean Bylander are sent to the Haverford community regarding the death of Water Wallace Jr. and the following protests?

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Jared Saef: When I first got it, I immediately noticed the sentence: “This death will… these protests will not only not bring Walter Wallace back, but could contribute to the spread of COVID” or something like that. And that immediately struck me as very patronizing because we are college students, we’re 20 something years old. We understand, obviously, that these protests are not even intended to bring someone back to life. That's not possible. These protests had a very different means, and that was to protest systemic racism. And for Wendy and Joyce to also say, “Oh, you can fix these issues by registering to vote.”, I thought that was also very patronizing because acting like students didn't already know this and this isn't even a solution either. So, this email overall seemed to punish students for using their student voice and agency to protest systemic racism, rather than issuing precautions for the students to do so, like offering quarantine units, for example. It just seemed very not well thought out and an encouragement for students to stay on campus and… an encouragement for students to not use their voice and stay within campus for the purpose of social distancing which I didn't think was very right as part of our philosophy.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. What did you do after you got that email?

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Jared Saef: After I got that email texted my friends, I was like, “What is this email?” A lot of other people were in a similar state of confusion. And I checked social media, and I saw a very large outrage of people expressing their anger with President Raymond and Dean Bylander on Instagram particularly about the language in the wording of the email like I had noticed.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Definitely. And did you choose to go to the sit-in that was expressed on social media?

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Jared Saef: Yes, I did.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And what did you think about that sit-in?

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Jared Saef: I thought the sit-in was very powerful. As a White student there… I learned at that sit-in that there is so much that students of color, and particularly women students of color, on this campus experience that I had never seen and that because of my privilege, I had been blinded to. Particularly, many spoke about how they feel their work is never credited. How they feel and social and different academic backgrounds, they are always pushed to the side, and they don't feel like they're valued, and particularly how being a Black person, being a person of color is often so exhausting for them having to see these news of people like them being murdered by police and being incarcerated is a very exhausting and time consuming burden that they have to take on. And hearing all this and hearing how much it affected them really transformed the way that going forward I would conduct myself on campus and what I would look out for.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. So, from the initial sit-in, you decided to support the strike?

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Jared Saef: Yes, I did.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Okay, and to what extent, did you support the strike? What did your daily schedule look like during the strike?

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Jared Saef: I supported it throughout. During this strike my daily schedule was I would usually wake up pretty late, and I would check social media, to see if there were any updates or proceedings on deliberations with the Dean. I would check my email to see if there were any more ways that I could help like emails from the strike leaders to see if they needed assistance. And I was actually kind of behind on a lot of work, so I caught up on just someone notes and in-class recordings that I hadn't done beforehand. And I didn't see this as a violation of what the strike leaders had ordered which wasn't to not turn any assignments, because I was just catching up on notes I wasn't turning anything in. And I would not go to the Coop. I would go to DC. And all of the- I also didn't go to any club meetings, so I spent a lot of time socializing with friends and also doing work to educate myself. Through the various teach-ins that strike leaders organized.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): So, I was wondering - you touch a little bit about social media. What was your experience on social media during the strike? Was it positive? Was it negative? Do you think it helped the strike or hurt the strike?

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Jared Saef: I think it helped a lot, because so many different resources and news about events was spread through this platform. For example, I remember a number of like pop up bakeries and kitchens were started during the initial part of the strike to provide quality dinners and meals to students, so that the burden could be taken off the Coop into DC. And it was through Instagram and Facebook that these kitchens were able to spread their platform and get off the ground. So, that was one way, and then information that strike leaders communicated to students through their Instagram was very helpful in disseminating information, in disseminating different links and helpful resources. And so I think it did play a very overall positive role in the continuation of the strike.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That's great to hear. You talked a little bit about the kitchens and bakeries, did you go to any of those?

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Jared Saef: I was planning to, before they got shut down. Yes.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Okay. And you talked a little bit about teach-ins. What did you think about the teach-ins that you attended?

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Jared Saef: I thought they were very, very interesting, I went to… I went to two of them, but I noticed that, overall, they covered, such a wide array of topics within education of anti-racism and Black history. I went to one teach-in hosted by Bryn Mawr History professor and an English Haverford professor about the move bombing, which I had already known about before but their insight provided me with a whole another level of knowledge about the event and how it related to the strike, and what we are seeing on our campus day and in Philadelphia. I went to another one by I think was like Haverford History professor about the history of students strikes on college campuses throughout the last century. And it was so fascinating to see the parallels that this History professor presented about what was seen on college campuses when these strikes occurred to what we were seeing at Haverford when our strike was occurring. And then I think I went to another one also about how Haverford upholds racism through various means. I particularly remember, we talked about like Haverford’s house in West Philadelphia and hosting students there to involve themselves in community organizations and how most the students were White. And having a dialogue about why that is problematic, and what could be done to change that.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. So, you talked about strikes or student protests on other campuses in that one teach-in. Do you think that there was something specific to Haverford that made this strike possible? Or do you think that it could have happened anywhere?

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Jared Saef: I think there were a few things, but Haverford’s emphasis on student voice and student self-agency I think was a very large part in the strike’s beginning and its continuation. Because Haverford places such a large emphasis on the students having the ability to shape the academic and school community that they live in, students may have felt more motivated to conduct this strike because of the influence that that we have in the shaping of our communities’ values. And as much as people will discredit the administration during the strike, I think that if the strike were conducted at an any other larger university like Tulane where my sister went or University of Pennsylvania, the administration would have been much less accommodating to negotiate with students. But because students at Haverford are seen as a legitimate part and say among activity within the school, partly because of Quaker values and what we’re founded on, the administration took seriously the students demands and engaged in negotiations with them. And even this act of negotiation, I think wouldn't have occurred at a larger university because students are not seen as having an equal place at the table.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That's really interesting. I was wondering what you thought it was like to have the strike occurred during the pandemic?

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Jared Saef: During the… to have the strike occurred during the pandemic, was it was definitely very tricky because a strike involves so much community work and community organization because students are banding together to try to achieve a very large means. So, community work and community involvement is very necessary, but of course with the heat of the pandemic at the time, this was very difficult. So, I think it was a tricky barrier that everyone had to navigate around, but I think the use of social media and the use of Zoom and online resources was very helpful in circumventing that because these tools were used in lieu of being able to gather in-person and hold as much in-person activity. So that's why I think social media was such a key part in the continuation of the strike.

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Rhea Chandran: Definitely. Yeah, on the note of community did you- what did you think about students who opposed the strike? Did you interact with them, and if so, what were those interactions like?

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Jared Saef: I think students who opposed the strike with largely… many of them… most of them were White, and I think many of these students were never… never put themselves in a place of uncomfortablity in terms of their positionality. And so, because this was the first time that they were being asked to do so, they felt frightened and scared, and instead of pushing themselves to that point of uncomfortability, they chose to be defensive. And I think that was the main reason that we saw so much resistance to the strike. For the first time, many White students were being asked to understand their privilege and understand the space they take up and understand that there are struggles that they don't have to deal with because of their race. And many had a very hard time comprehending this and chose instead of looking within themselves to understand how their privilege has benefited them, chose to lash out against those who were asking them to reevaluate. And I think this was particularly evident in this anonymous letter by Publius that was distributed across campus. Because Publius even stated that he found it ridiculous that he was being questioned to take up… he was being questioned as to reevaluating the space he took up as a White person because he believes that everyone has equal say and there shouldn't be any type of discrimination based on race. And I think this is one example of that. So yes, I did have engagements with people who opposed the strike. There were a number of people in my customs hall who opposed the strike. All of my friends supported it. Most of my friends were outside of my dorm. And our customs team also did support the strike. So, around two weeks… no… around like 10 days into the strike, our customs team noticed the very large resistance that a number of people on my hall were having to the events of the strikes. So, we had an in-person meeting about people's concerns, and it was at this meeting that I was really able to see, unfortunately, the very large resistance that many White students in my customs group had. There was one- There was two people in my customs hall, one boy and one girl, who were turned away from the strike because their chemistry TAs in a group chat that they have for chemistry said that “Their attendance or lack thereof in the strike will be noted” and therefore they felt that they would be punished academically if they did not participate in the strike by their TAs. And they felt this was wrong, and they felt that this was a use of intimidation and coercion that was not healthy. And so, therefore, that was their reason for not supporting it, and we tried to explain to these students that there's so much more going on in the events of the strike and… there's so much more going on in the events of the strike that are way more important than this one sentence that these chemistry TAs may have said. And unfortunately, this didn't come across to them, but this was my largest interaction with people who did not support it.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That's really- that must have been really hard to hear from them. Do you think that your first year experience changed because of people like that, or do you think that the entire first year class shifted after that?

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Jared Saef: I’d say after the strike there was definitely more of an awareness of the struggles that BIPOC students go through. And there seems to be a larger awareness on campus because I mean, I noticed that more departments and resources were being offered toward anti-racist education after that.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. Speaking of academics and departments, what was your experience with your professors? Did they support the strike?

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Jared Saef: All of my… I was very fortunate in that all of my professors supported the strike, yeah. None of them held classes during the strike.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That’s great to hear. And did you feel like you were given adequate resources to re-enter class after the strike?

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Jared Saef: Resources in terms of…

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): You know, like meetings with professors if you're falling behind or time to finish, you know or syllabus changes if that makes sense?

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Jared Saef: Yeah, all of my professors on the first day of class after the strike had an all-class meeting with the students to figure out how the syllabus would be restructured to accommodate for the rest of the semester because of the material missed during the strike. So, none of my professors laid on extra work or additional assignments because of the strike… because they all supported it. There were just unfortunately units that we missed, but the professors did not try… my professors did not attempt to assign this as homework. So, I didn't face any additional work because of the strike.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And did you feel satisfied by the response of the cities major department, your intended major department?

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Jared Saef: I did, yes, they supported this strike. They have always been a very progressive department, so I mean I always knew they would and yeah.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That's great to hear. And did any of your friends’ departments or other departments that you heard about what did you think about if you heard about any other departments’ responses, what do you think about those?

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Jared Saef: I think the math department had a very valuable response. They supported the strike, and also vowed to commence a reevaluation or maybe this was… maybe it was like biology, I think, was biology actually. The biology department not only supported it, but committed to commence a reevaluation of their entire curriculum to rework any aspects of anti-Black racism that was embedded in the curriculum. And I thought, especially in a department like Biology was really powerful, especially because of the noticeable drop out of Black and BIPOC STEM students that we see at Haverford.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Definitely. And have you noticed any changes and departments that you've taken classes in from the fall to the spring that have implemented some of the things they talked about?

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Jared Saef: Yes, um. I noticed in my math department. I'm not a stem major, but I took a math class this semester, and my professor after the verdict release of Derek Chauvin extended our assignment by two or three days so that Black students in the class could have the adequate time to cope with the verdict and comprehend it. And I think this is an example of something that likely wouldn't have been done before the strike, but the increased awareness of the struggles of BIPOC students on campus after the strike is more evident and is an example… and that extension is an example of that. And also, in my math department the professor highlighted several events that were geared toward anti-racist like BIPOC history within the field of mathematics throughout the semester. And so that was the most visible example. But I noticed like through throughout campus in the events that different departments were advertising, there was definitely a focus more on anti-racist education.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Definitely. And do you think that the administration has made it made any strides towards some of the strike demands, or just in general towards healing after in the spring semester?

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Jared Saef: Yes, I think, with their… with the different initiatives that they are beginning to conduct, I think it's visible that they are committing much more and anti-racism. The admissions department admitted a noticeably larger number of Black and Indigenous students, this year, so I think that's also an example of their willingness to… their willingness to make Haverford more anti-racist. And yeah with the different initiatives I forget the names, but with the initiatives that Haverford administration is commencing, I think we will see a positive change.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That's good to hear you think that. I want to talk a little bit about your friends. What did your friends think about the strike? What type of conversations that you have with your friends during the strike?

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Jared Saef: All of my friends supported it. Yeah, all of my friends supported it. The conversations I remember having were… it was frankly around a lot of uncertainty because we all supported it, but we had no idea when it would end or what kind of results we would see. So, towards the end of the strike, especially there was a very large concern that we would lose our accreditation or that we wouldn't get credit for the semester or that the demands of the strike would never be met, and we would go until the end of our in-person time at Haverford. And none of us ended up happening, but because there was so much uncertainty, especially when there were times when we felt that the strikers and administration were reaching like a point of gridlock, many of my friends began to worry a lot.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Like during this period of worrying, where did you turn to find support or comfort, did you turn to friends, family?

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Jared Saef: Um I turned to my friends, yes. We kind of came to the conclusion that, although our concerns were valid, what was much more important was the demands of the strike for the betterment of BIPOC students’ experience on campus. So the ends would justify the means. Although our concerns were still legitimate, what was much more of importance was what were these demands.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And how did, if at all, you tell your family about the strike?

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Jared Saef: My family, my parents were initially very they were supportive of the strike because I was. But they also began to grow very concerned toward what would become the end of the strike because of the loss of accreditation and this seemingly non-terminal gridlock that the administration and students leading the strike were having. So, they called me several times toward the end of the strike to discuss what would occur. And so, their calls just kind of like… it kind of made me more scared to see how much they were worrying about it.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. and what did you talk to them about it when they were worried? Did you agree with them?

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Jared Saef: Um in some points. Like I was also worried about accreditation and getting credit for the semester. But I think they didn't have an understanding fully of the strike’s demands and how important they were, while I seem to have more of an understanding of that.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): And do you know if your parents were talking to any of the parents were maybe attempting to pursue legal action against organizers?

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Jared Saef: Oh, no.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Were they involved in any like the parent groups on Facebook?

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Jared Saef: They weren't even in the parent groups at the time, but because I heard so much talk from other students about what parents were saying in the parent group, I told my mom to join, just so she could send me what they were saying. But she did not engage with any dialogue- engage in any dialogue with other parents, did not actively oppose the strike. So, she was not pursuing any type of legal action, because that was like ridiculous.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Yeah, and you mentioned, you had a sister who has been to college? Did you talk to your sibling about that?

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Jared Saef: A little bit. One thing she said that stuck with me was that if, like the strike had occurred at Tulane, there would have been a very large resistance from the administration and the students would not have been taken seriously whatsoever. And I thought at Haverford it was especially powerful to see that the administration was at least legitimizing the students’ demands and offering them a seat of negotiation.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Okay. That's great to hear. And you mentioned you didn't attend any clubs during the strike. What clubs do you participate in?

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Jared Saef: I’m part of the S-Chords acappella group and we supported the strike. So we not only canceled all practices during this time, but also in conjunction with other acapella groups issued a statement to commit to reevaluating our own groups practices to understand how they may have furthered systemic racism and committing to reevaluating our practices under the guise of anti-racism- with the intent of anti-racism. And then I was also part of a Quiz Bowl club before the strike I went to like maybe a few meetings. But because they continued to hold meetings during the strike, I didn't attend any club meetings for the rest of the year because I was very frustrated by their continuation of meetings during this time.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Yeah, I can imagine that that would be really frustrating. Did the S-Chords sign the sheet of clubs who committed to the strike?

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Jared Saef: Yeah. Yes, we did.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Okay that's great to hear. And I wanted to ask you just generally do you believe that the strike was successful?

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Jared Saef: Yes, I do. To see how to- see what the administration committed to after the strike, I think it was very successful, yes. The like $75,000 to fix repairs in the BCC and the… what else… the hiring of another person on the CAPS staff for LGBT students and the host of other initiatives that the administration would commit to begin because of the strike’s demands was really, really powerful. And so yeah I did think it was very successful.

00:32:47.820
Rhea Chandran (she/her): And if you had a message to share with students who either opposed the strike or didn't think it was successful in different ways, what would you share with them?

00:32:57.000
Jared Saef: And for students who oppose the strike I would encourage them to reevaluate the space they take up, and I would ask them to…. I would ask them to… I don't know. I don't know what I’d say to them. And then, what was the other part of the question?

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): You know to students who kind of on the same lines didn't think it was successful. Or even to future Haverford students.

00:33:33.390
Jared Saef: For students who didn't think it was successful, possibly they were likely more focusing on the turmoil that was occurring on campus at the time versus what the outcomes of the of the strike were. And I'd ask them to reevaluate whether they whether what they think is more important. And then for future Haverford students, I encourage them to look at the demands of the strike and to understand the event- to see how the campus continues to uphold racism and what we're doing to fix it so that they can participate in that repair toward a more anti-racist Haverford.

00:34:29.340
Rhea Chandran (she/her): That makes a lot of sense. I guess what are some things that you think that Haverford still needs to work on and some things that you hope to change in your next few years on campus?

00:34:39.870
Jared Saef: Huh. Huh what Haverford… I think, Haverford needs to still work on acknowledging BIPOC history of the campus. I in April participated in the People's… it was called The People's History of… or the that it was called like The People's History of Haverford tour. And it was like a walking tour of campus led by an alumni who did research on BIPOC history on the campus. And I learned so many different interesting facts about like the first Black student on campus, the first Black professor, the Haverford discussions, different monuments on campus designed by Black architects. And it was so fascinating to me that I’d never learned about this before, and for that reason I think Haverford administration could do a much better job of acknowledging and publicly educating about the BIPOC history on our campus.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): That's great. And do you have anything that you would like to work on personally that you think you can maybe tackle in your next three years?

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Jared Saef: I’d like hmm. I think like as a White student there is- there is privilege that I benefit from and things that I will not see unless I really commit to understanding them. And while I am going through that process currently, there will inevitably be things that I will have to work on. And so, that's what I’m committing myself to. From the values of the strike to fully like orient myself toward anti-racism when I am on campus.

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Rhea Chandran (she/her): Okay. And do you think that there'll be more student strikes in the future on Haverford’s campus?

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Jared Saef: It's possible yeah. To see the success of the… to see the success of what our previous strike brought. I think…I think students will be more influenced to engage in a strike in the future if there is a necessity for it, yes.

00:37:12.570
Rhea Chandran (she/her): Thank you so much, those are all the questions that I have.

00:37:15.240
Jared Saef: Thank you.