Harold Weaver (Class of 1956) interviewed by Rachael Wong (Class of 2024)

00:00:03
Rachael Wong: Yeah. I think it should be recording now.

00:00:10
Harold Weaver: Okay. If you're not recording least we are, we can give you ours.

00:00:05
Rachael Wong: Okay, that’d be great. So it's Wednesday March 31, 2021. This is Rachael Wong, Class of 2024, conducting an interview as part of the Documenting Student Life Alumni Oral History project. So, could you please introduce yourself by your name, class you're in, major?

00:00:34
Harold Weaver: Great. Yes, I’m Harold D. Weaver, better known among my classmates as Hal Weaver, Class of ‘56, my official major was sociology, but I did more in political science and went on their senior trip. So I identify both as a political science major and as a sociology major.

00:01:04
Rachael Wong: Okay, great. Could you tell me a bit about your childhood and where you grew up?

00:01:09
Harold Weaver: Sure. I grew up in Savannah, Georgia. My father was a college professor and what was then called, what is now called Savannah State University. And then we move to, from an all-Black community to an all-white community in State College Pennsylvania where my father was getting a doctorate in education administration and then we moved to Delaware back to segregated schools in Delaware. That's the earliest part of my, my, my life. Before I went off to prep schools, before heading off to Haverford.


00:01:55
Rachael Wong: How did your experiences at Haverford compared to your other educational experiences in other college campuses in your childhood?

00:02:03
Harold Weaver: Well, remember, education, those days, 50s was very Eurocentric we, whether at Haverford or at Westtown. My first Quaker experience was at Westtown and that was a opportunity for, one was coming of age at that point, and so it was a very important and warming experience. Haverford was less so in terms of the affective but in terms of its academic life it was a very rigorous academic life. My own experiences at Haverford however, were tremendous also outside of the classroom because from the very first day I arrived, I was involved in uh non-academic activities, football practice, I was later elected President of class, and was very much involved as a class leader and as a member, representing the class on the Students’ Council so for me, student activities, non-academic, non-curricular activities were always as much a part of my life as the academic wise.

00:03:31
Rachael Wong: Could you tell me a little bit more about why you decided to go to Haverford?

00:03:37
Harold Weaver: Yes, I decided, one of the main reasons that I decided to go to Haverford, I was impressed at Westtown, three of my best friend's parents, either taught, or were administrators at Haverford. And I was impressed by each of those my, my life partner Anne Steere Nash was in my class at, at Westtown, and her father is a very prominent philosopher from Haverford. Bitsy Hoag’s father had been dean, she was, I was very much impressed by, by her and, and Bill Cadbury. In my class at Westtown very impressive and all, they had three things, all three had one thing in common is that their parents were professors at Haverford, and that so impressed me that that was really one of the main reasons that attracted me to Haverford College.

00:04:51
Rachael Wong: What student organizations are you involved with on campus?

00:04:54
Harold Weaver: Well I was, as I said before, I was very active from the very first day I got on campus to literally the last day. Literally, I was involved as a part of the varsity football team and the varsity basketball team and varsity track team. I was involved as class president one year, as class vice president another year. I was involved with the students Council, as a representative of the freshman class. The other activities that I recall, thanks to your sending me the blurb from the yearbook, was activities related to government and policy and Political Studies. And so I think what I was called, what I joined was called the intercollegiate conference on government or something like that and one of course the joys of that was that I was able to be host and to welcome to campus Dr. Ralph Bunche an African American at the UN, who had just won the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in Palestine and Israel. That was a very, very rewarding interaction with him the, I was impressed by his calmness. And I guess if you're successful diplomat, you have to be very calm and, and on the surface at least if not inside of you. So those were some of the, the activities. If there any, the extracurricular activities I was trying to look at this list and see if I remembered others. In fact, one on here PAA I'm not even sure what that means. Oh yes. Another activity that I was involved in was, was helping freshman to adjust to the campus. Both my sophomore and junior years that, was a, that was an important activity that I found myself involved in. Welcoming. We were in the midst, at that point they used to call the freshman Rhinies. They used to wear a little red caps. I don't know if that's a part of the orientation now but I think that was really kind of demeaning, and I know several of the freshmen who came in, felt that I treated them very differently from, from the demeaning way that some other people treated them during the during the orientation.

00:08:01
Rachael Wong: Um speaking of divides on campus, was there.

00:08:04
Harold Weaver: Of what? Speaking of what?

00:08:08
Rachael Wong: Speaking of divides on campus. Was there a big divide between athletes and non-athletes when you went to Haverford?

00:08:15
Harold Weaver: No, no, they really was not. It really was not in those days. We didn't have this, I didn't feel that way or maybe because I never straddled, I never got involved in one group or another. A number of, some of the athletes happened in football, for example, happened to be day students and therefore their lives were were quite different from the boarding students, but I did not feel that there was the kind of divide that I have learned from current athletes that seems to exist now at Haverford. We were a much smaller school then, we were all man, we had under 500 students and so there was not much of a divide that I could see and experience. Among my, my, my fellow students and as a student politician I, my idea was always to try to pull people together so I didn't I did not really see it divide. Athletics have, athletics at Haverford now have gotten much more sophisticated I suppose and therefore, I understand they are divides now but I really don't feel that they existed when I was there at a small under 500 students all male population.

00:09:52
Rachael Wong: How did the student, the student body respond to racial issues on campus. Do you think that it was sufficient?

00:10:02
Harold Weaver: How did the student body respond, no racial issue ever came up on campus during my four years there. As I said, we were small in number there were, I think, eight of us when I was there, eight African American students. All men. In fact, racial issues tended to only come. What I remember racial issues coming up only when, during off campus extracurricular activities. For example, I went with the political science seniors down to Washington, we were hosted by a US Congressman who was a Haverford grad, and there were two of us African Americans in that group Jimmy Baker, who later desegregated the US embassy and in Johannesburg in South Africa, and I. And we were disinvited to a social event at a country club during that official Haverford field trip. Some of my current fellow classmates, remind me of that experience from, from time, time to time. The other time, and of course nothing was done about that no apology or anything. The second time was when I had a basketball game in the University of Delaware in Newark. And those were the schools, and basically were still desegregated then, and in 52 53 54 during that era. And I was not allowed to eat with the teammates in the diner, in Newark. Of course the school should have foreseen that and made other arrangements, so what happened, was in fact that I am on campus at the University of Delaware, with two of my teammates accompany me one my roommate John Thomas, and the other a Washingtonian named Pug Barton. But basically, so basically we, I don't remember any racial incidents when we were on campus. But those are two things that did happen off campus. Interestingly enough in this regard that you mentioned extracurricular activities earlier, I got a call several years ago from a person who had graduated the year before me. And like me was, was active in sports. And he, out of the blue called to apologize for keeping me out of a secret fraternity at Haverford. He said because he did it, he thought he felt for my own interest. And to this day. Rachael I am mystified by that call. Why he called, and what hit him, all of a sudden after over 50 years to apologize for something that I was totally unaware of.

00:13:36
Rachael Wong: Could you talk a little bit more about the secret fraternities at Haverford?

00:13:39
Harold Weaver: I can’t because I don't know very much about them. But there was a secret fraternity. And even the guy who became president after my, after my graduation Hugh Borton, was a member of that. But it basically was a, as I understand it because I was never a member. It was, it brought together people who were considered outstanding on campus in terms of the combination of extracurricular activities and, and scholarship. But I, not having been a member, that's all that I know about it.

00:14:32
Rachael Wong: How do you think your experience at Haverford compared to others in your year? Do think that people at Haverford registered your experiences any different because of your race?

00:14:46
Harold Weaver: Well, yes, I think one of the things that I hear about now that I didn't know about before was that for some of my white classmates and schoolmates this was the first interaction that they had with a person of color. So, whether I meant to or not, I consider that their interaction with me, was very impactful. And since I was well respected on campus, I suspect that this impacted their view of African Americans, because they had had little or no contact with African Americans coming from the white high schools and prep schools and suburbs, that many of them, undoubtedly, came from. And I was only to learn this decades later as people talked about this being their first experience with an African American. We're talking about the 50s now.

00:16:08
Rachael Wong: How do you think the civil rights era informed your experience at Haverford?

00:16:14
Harold Weaver: What do you mean informed my experience in Haverford?

00:16:20
Rachael Wong: How did the overall Haverford community interact with the civil rights movement, or was there.

00:16:28
Harold Weaver: It was basically pre civil rights movement, when, when I was there, so that Montgomery, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, etc. came about. Basically, after my Haverford experience. So that there were some people including John Cato was a year before maybe it's no longer living so you can’t interview him. He had been involved with core. A committee on racial equality, when it was really a civil rights, non-violent active organization with sit ins and bus rides. But otherwise, the civil rights movement really did not affect the Haverford campus that I was on between 1952 and 56.

00:17:46
Rachael Wong: Where do you feel like you found community at Haverford?

00:17:54
Harold Weaver: I think my major community. I found it among by fellow athletes. I found it among my fellow student council members. And I found it Among the African American, with whom each weekend when we're not doing sports we would go in to socialize and party with fellow African Americans at these fraternities and sororities at Temple University, and and and University of Pennsylvania. So those were a variety of places where we, where we did find a community.

00:18:48
Rachael Wong: Do you feel like Student Council appropriately addressed matters that were brought to them, and were there ever moments where you felt like having a forum for larger events, lend itself to having like a, a discourse that was all, not always positive?

00:19:06
Harold Weaver: Can you, can you repeat that please?

00:19:11
Rachael Wong: Do you feel like, yeah, sure, um, do you feel like Student Council appropriately addressed the matters that were brought to them. And do you think that, I guess having like a larger group forum to discuss ideas to discuss issues that might be very personal was ever harmful?

00:19:30
Harold Weaver: Well, I think the role of Student Council in those days, our major responsibility was to oversee the honor, honor code which I think is perhaps done separately now. That was one of our major responsibilities to oversee the honor code in terms of social life. And in terms of, of the, of the academic life. But it was not a place where I remember students bringing concerns about their own personal concerns to the, to the, to the Council, I just don't remember any cases where personal concerns were brought to the council.

00:20:23
Rachael Wong: I understand that you didn't identify as a Quaker until after Haverford, but could you tell me a bit more about Quakerism at Haverford?

00:20:32
Harold Weaver: Yes, I went to Quaker high school myself, Westtown, and Haverford of course, and Haverford’s Quakerism impacted me greatly because it was as a result of Quakerism that I became a conscientious objector. Well U.S. Army draftee remember those days. You were drafted into the military, there is no longer a military draft so far as I know. So that was a major impact. We had required meeting for worship, on, on Thursdays, which I had no problem with because I had been to Westtown where we had required meeting. Twice, twice, twice a week at Westtown. So it was the Haverford, the Quaker environment, although few of my classmates and fewer faculty were Quakers, the Quaker environment the Quaker ethos certainly impacted me I was drawn to Quakerism for two major reasons I suppose the one the belief that there's that of God in every person, and therefore we're all, we're all sacred, which later influenced my resistance while in the army to, to the military. And second, the Quaker method of doing business the Quaker method of conducting a business meeting, which was to draw upon rather than the majority versus minority was to draw upon what they call the sense of the meeting. That is for decision making, that is to draw upon what you interpret as the will of God in your decision making. Now when I went from Westtown to Haverford and became class president Westtown, I introduced the Quaker system of business meeting to my classmates, not fully understanding what it was. I interpreted as a consensus, a worldly consensus. And that's how I conducted business I didn't take boats, but I misinterpreted, what the sense of the meeting was because the sense of the meeting as I indicated, was not based on worldly things, but on your relationship to your supreme being or however, however you define yourself as if you were a religious person. So those are, those are, how Quakerism impacted me while I was a student and a student political leader at Haverford.

00:23:51
Rachael Wong: Did you feel supported during your time at Haverford? And what do you think Haverford could have done better to support you as a student?

00:24:04
Harold Weaver: As a small liberal arts college of 450 students, Haverford, I believe fully supported me. I did not feel at any time that I was not supported by Haverford, the advising system I always had a good advisor. I had access to the administrators. I had empathetic teachers. So back in the 50s, I felt fully supported by, by Haverford teachers and our very very small environment. I cannot think of any teacher whom I, I felt that was not supportive of, of of me as a student, but was very, very helpful. I remember one professor. Andy Scott, even as I was about to graduate had not turned in a paper and coming on campus and eliciting the paper from me. So I had a very good one on one relationship with with, I felt, with all of my of all of my professors at Haverford and at Westtown. I felt Quakerism very much alive, even if many of the professors and students were not Quakers inherently.

00:25:54
Rachael Wong: Did you find mentorship with members of the Haverford faculty?

00:26:00
Harold Weaver: Well, we didn't use, we didn't have that term mentorship in those days. But I did feel that the faculty was available. I don't think that I took full advantage of the availability of, Ira Reid my advisor, you know the Ira Reid house at Haverford. I didn't feel that I took advantage of, of my availability of my other sociology professor Milton Gordon, but I did feel that they were available. But I, but, but, but for good I did not take full advantage of their availability, which was my fault. I think and not theirs.

00:26:53
Rachael Wong: Could you tell me about the culture surrounding the Cold War during your time at Haverford, I also understand that you did an exchange program with the USSR later on, after your time at Haverford. Wondering if you can talk a bit about that.

00:27:12
Harold Weaver: Talk a bit about my exchange, my involvement and as an exchange, as a person who spent time in the Soviet Union? You mean, after Haverford?

00:27:25
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:27:26
Harold Weaver: But you also want to know about the impact of the Cold War on Haverford.

00:27:31
Rachael Wong: Yes.

00:27:33
Harold Weaver: So let's start there. Haverford was one of the few institutions that I know of, where the President, in this case Gilbert White, and the faculty and the board, thoroughly supported those faculty members who were victims of the Cold War. My advisor Ira Reid was one of those. He had his passport like Paul Robeson taken away for a period of time. Because of his association with other people who might have been communists. But, thank goodness Gilbert White and the rest of the faculty and the board, I assume, gave, gave support to those, to those, to those people. Remember we were living in a context, then in which, for example, if you taught in the state of California in a state institution, you had a, you had to sign, to sign a loyalty oath. Remember the government people who dared express themselves could be fired from their jobs because of the existence of McCarthyism where people were under suspicion, where even the Quakers, the American Friends Service Committee. Took the name of Bayard Rustin of its significant pamphlet speak truth to power. And it was only when I was a board member, in about 2010 I think that I initiated the action to return his name to that pamphlet. So that not only was racism and sexism and homophobia, a part of the American way of life, but political persecution called McCarthyism because of the one senator from Wisconsin, who was emblematic and symptomatic, symbolic, of it. In terms of my own involvement, later, questioning the whole premise of the Cold War, I became in 1959, Three years after graduation from Haverford, a member of summer youth exchange program with the Soviet Union. And I frankly came away very much impressed by its education system, by his free health care system, by its equality of women, by it’s, the fact that 60 or so years ago women controlled their own bodies in the Soviet Union and could get abortions. I was impressed by the training that African, Caribbean, Asian students could get in the sciences and technology so, I came away very much impressed with some aspects of life, and have been questioning ever since, through my lectures and conversations and writings, the, the whole concept of, of the Cold War. Perhaps it was my Haverford education that made me skeptical. I don't know, but I was a skeptic of the Cold War and remain skeptic and try to do whatever I can to show some of the truths and realities of what was actually happening during that year. And then discouraged, disappointed that the mentality of a Cold War. Both towards Russia and China still exists in the United States, even among the current administration, which is a very dis, which is a tremendous disappointment to me.

00:33:04
Rachael Wong: Do you think that Haverford prepared you for your life outside, of outside of higher education?

00:33:19
Harold Weaver: No. How could it. We had strictly a Eurocentric education and most of the world is not Eurocentric. We had, none of my courses, well and except in sociology and my major, were we ever exposed to the writings of people of color. Even in the required English course which was a great course, very Eurocentric, even when it dealt with areas like Africa, there were only white writers who were used. In this case, Albert Schweitzer and Alan Payton, who had a good reputation in the liberal community but did not understand the realities. Even in the course I took in international affairs in which we spent some time on India, for example, very little, we were, we were exposed very little to the actual writings of people from India. I remember reading Chester Bowles’ ambassador’s report, now, Chester Bowles was a white, quite between liberal and progressive I would say, and I learned a lot from that. And we actually corresponded because he had been connected with an international relations camp for a month that I went to after Westtown and I met him again when he came down to speak at Bryn Mawr. But there was very little exposure to Africans, to Asians, to Latin Americans. And our, totally, totally Eurocentric Haverford curriculum, to which I was exposed in the early 1950s. I'm so happy that there have been significant changes since then. And I remember even bringing a Chinese film, a major Chinese filmmaker from China to Haverford so that students could interact with him back in the late 1990s I think it was. But no, there was no preparation real for, for life.

00:36:15
Rachael Wong: Are you familiar with Haverford strike that happened in October of last year?

00:36:21
Harold Weaver: Not as much, I'm sorry, go ahead.

00: 36:24
Rachael Wong: I was just gonna say, if you are, how did you feel about it?

00:36:31
Harold Weaver: Well, I was, I tried to get information, I am a member of the Corporation at Haverford. Having become a rookie at age 85, I was invited to join last year. And obviously I was very sympathetic, to the strike. I still don't have, I can't say that I'm totally, aware of all the details. But I think the principle of a strike, and under the circumstances, it seems to me were quite reasonable. I wish I had more details on the, on the strike, excuse me. Why don't you share with me some of your thoughts and feelings about the strike.

00:37:38
Rachael Wong: Sure. So the strike was initially a response to an email sent out by Wendy Raymond and Joyce Bylander. Following the death of an unarmed Black man in Philadelphia, and it was an effort to get Haverford students to not go into Philly and not go to protest. And so, in their email there was sort of insensitive towards like, the complexity of the situation it was sort of brushed aside as just like this is an effort to make Haverford a more safe place from a Covid standpoint, while entirely ignoring the lack of safety that students of color were feeling and especially Black students were feeling at the time.

00:35:25
Harold Weaver: So I did not realize Rachael, that that was a response to that correspondence. I’m totally misinformed.

00:35:34
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:35:35
Harold Weaver: It’s good to be corrected, to be informed, be better informed.

00:38:40
Rachael Wong: Yeah, of course. And so then after that the strike lasted, I think, it was a couple of weeks I want to say, and I don't know if you ever got a chance to read the strike demands also. But those were definitely worth reading over.

00:38:58
Harold Weaver: I did, I did read those yes uh huh. Yeah.

00:39:03
Rachael Wong: I think that for the most part most of the campus was supportive of it, and professors were supportive and would like, be understanding of students missing class time as well.

00:39:15
Harold Weaver: Do you feel, what do you feel have been the results that you feel, are you, are you personally happy with the results.

00:39:24
Rachael Wong: I think it's hard to tell. A lot of the things that were promised were things that are going to happen like in this coming school year. And so, it's, a lot of it just hasn't really been implemented yet so it's hard to tell if it's really working and of course things aren't going to change overnight but I think it's definitely a good step forward.

00:39:48
Harold Weaver: And especially what, what, if you were to pinpoint one thing that's a good step forward. What would you, what would you pinpoint.

00:39:59
Rachael Wong: Um I think that having more positions for students to have input in administrative decisions was probably the most important to me.

00:40:12
Harold Weaver: What do you feel that I as an alumnus, can do, should do, to facilitate students having their demands met.

00:40:30
Rachael Wong: Um, I guess, maybe making an effort to make sure that administration delivers on their promises and sort of applying that pressure in a way that students can't really do.

00:40:47
Harold Weaver: How would you suggest I do that?

00:40:52
Rachael Wong: I guess.

00:40:52
Harold Weaver: Correspondence with the President.

00:40:55
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:41:07
Harold Weaver: Which I would, would do what?

00:41:15
Rachael Wong: I would say just like emails about like following up on what changes they're making to make sure that Haverford is a more equitable place where people feel safe and welcome.

00:41:35
Harold Weaver: Let me write that down. Anything else to, that you would suggest that I could do as an alumnus?

00:41:56
Rachael Wong: Um, I think it's hard for me specifically just as a first year. That's also here, like during a pandemic and not really having had a lot of experience so like of Haverford school culture to like have a, to have really strong opinions I guess on like what the school culture is really like, but I don't know, I guess you could also think more about how, like what you wish was different during your time at Haverford and like try and find, try and make support systems to address the issues that you feel like weren't addressed when you are here.

00:42:40
Harold Weaver: It’s a whole different ballgame now.

00:42:42
Rachael Wong: That's true.

00:42:47
Harold Weaver: Which high school did you go to in New York by the way?

00:42:50
Rachael Wong: I went to St. Ann's.

00:42:53
Harold Weaver: St. Ann’s is located where? Is that up near Columbia?
00:42:56
Rachael Wong: No, it's in Brooklyn Heights, it's by Brooklyn Friends actually.

00:43:01
Harold Weaver: Is it Episcopalian or Catholic?

00:43:04
Rachael Wong: Neither it's non secular.

00:43:06
Harold Weaver: Non-secular, really? Go St. Ann’s.

00:43:09
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:43:10
Harold Weaver: How did you happen to wind up as a Ford?

00:43:15
Rachael Wong: Um actually it's kind of complicated, um, I went to public school from pre K to sixth grade. And then in fifth grade.

00:43:28
Harold Weaver: Are you from Brooklyn?

00:43:29
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:43:30
Harold Weaver: What part of Brooklyn?

00:43:31
Rachael Wong: Windsor Terrace.

00:43:32
Harold Weaver: Where's that?

00:43:34
Rachael Wong: Um, it's by Prospect Park

00:43:35
Harold Weaver: It's all out, okay near the Public Library. Brooklyn library, art museum. Uh huh. I have relatives living on that end.

00:43:44
Rachael Wong: Oh, where in Brooklyn?

00:43:46
Harold Weaver: Union Street.

00:43:48
Rachel Wong: Oh, yeah, I know Union.

00:43:52
Harold Weaver: It was a Jewish neighborhood at that point.

00:43:54
Rachael Wong: Yeah. Yeah, so I applied into this program that was essentially made to help students of color get into private schools in New York at fifth grade, and you have to like take two standardized tests for it and like an IQ test and like go through rounds of interviews and it's like a very intense process. But after that. And then there's also like a 14 month like academic like preparatory component after you get into the program. And after that you apply to like private schools in New York. And I applied to St Ann's because my parents wanted me to like stay somewhat close to home and going into the city felt like a very big deal when I was 12. So St. Ann’s ended up being my first choice and I got in. And so then I went there from seventh to 12th grade, and St. Ann's is a super small private school with no grades and it's like a very like free thinking school, and I really enjoyed my time there yeah, there’s a lot of extracurriculars and I feel like I got to experience a lot of choice really early on in my education that a lot of people really don't get to have.

00:45:18
Harold Weaver: Oh, that's great, now you're, you have a Chinese name. Are you also Indian and or African, as well as Chinese?

00:45:28
Rachael Wong: I'm a quarter Chinese and then three quarters Indian.

00:45:32
Harold Weaver: Okay.

00:45:32
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

13:47:33
Harold Weaver: Okay. So your father. Wong is Chinese then.

00:45:38
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:45:38
Harold Weaver: Okay. Okay. That's an interesting, interesting combination.

00:45:47
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:45:52
Harold Weaver: And has Haverford been good to you so far have you gotten out of it, what you were hoping to get out of it?

00:46:00
Rachael Wong: Yeah, Haverford’s been good for me so far. I like that it's small, for sure. That was one thing that I really wanted in a college when I was going through the entire process of applying places. So, yeah, I don’t know, I think it definitely feels like it's hard to judge things with the restrictions of Covid and just because I like understand that my experience next year will be entirely different from what it is now.

00:46:28
Harold Weaver: Yeah, it’s been there the whole time that you've been there.

00:46:31
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:46:31
Harold Weaver: The restriction what oh, that's quite a challenging way to begin college

00:46:38
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:46:40
Harold Weaver: And how did you happen to get involved in this project. Is this a paid job you have with the library or?

00:46:48
Rachael Wong: Yeah, I'm on work study and so I was looking for jobs that seemed interesting, I don't know, I knew for sure that I didn't want to just like do a job working in like, the mailroom at Haverford or like working in the dining center. So, I was looking into jobs in the library a lot, and I was always sort of interested in like, I have always been interested in history just because I think that in order to understand things that are happening now you have to better understand the past and like, you can't separate the two and so it was really important for me to like, not only help myself better understand Haverford but also to have Haverford have some sort of like framework to understand itself from.

00:47:39
Harold Weaver: That makes a lot of sense. Have we, have you asked us, most of the questions you want to ask us.

00:47:50
Rachael Wong: Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to share?

00:47:56
Harold Weaver: I'm just happy you're doing this project, and Haverford, as you can gather, was a very important part of my life, although it's hard for me to separate Haverford from Swarthmore. I consider this sort of like six continuous years of Quaker, of exposure to Quakers, and which have obviously impacted me. Yes, please. I'm doing an interview and I'll be down in two minutes yeah. That's okay. Sorry, I've just been told that lunch is ready and we have ordered some Indian food so some good Indian food. Yeah, no, I think, don't think there's anything else I have except I'm open, very much open to interacting with students of color. I was first invited down to Haverford when, by its first African American Dean. This was decades ago. But I've never really been there to interact with students of color, and several people have brought up the idea. In the last few decades, so if there's anything I can do to facilitate better life, better learning to the students of color I would be more than happy to do what I can. So share that with your fellow students of color and do what you want to about it.

00:49:54
Rachael Wong: I definitely will, yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to meet with you.

00:49:59
Harold Weaver: Well, it's been a real pleasure and keep me posted, you have, what how do you intend to, what do you intend to do with these interviews that you're doing with alumni of color?

00:50:16
Rachael Wong: I think that we're currently planning on doing some sort of slideshow once we finish the entire interview process with everyone we have lined up. But nothing's really finalized yet, and sort of an idea that's in flux but I think we're definitely going to have some way of like, distributing it.

00:50:35
Harold Weaver: I'd love to see the final product as well. Let me know if you need anything else.

00:50:43
Rachael Wong: Okay yes, that sounds great. I'll also be in touch probably in the next couple of days about like the archives, distributing, like there's paperwork I think you're gonna have to fill out at some point.

00:50:55
Harold Weaver: Oh yeah,sure, sure. Under the, the college archives.

00:51:00
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:51:01
Harold Weaver: You know, one of the things that I've done with my Quaker ministry that I should mention is that we have a Quakers of color international archive. And I've gotten two Haverford people involved in it one is Emma Lapsansky-Werner, you know her? She's a retired African American Quaker collection curator and Professor of History and Mary Craudereuff who is in charge of the Quaker collection. They are both involved in a project that I initiated with my ministry the Quakers of color international archive and we actually have video tapes on video tapes in the University of Massachusetts Dubois library and do you know about these videos of the University of Massachusetts library?

00:52:04
Rachael Wong: Yeah I think I've seen one of the interviews.

00:52:08
Harold Weaver: Okay.

00:52:08
Rachael Wong: Yeah.

00:52:10
Harold Weaver: So there is one of me if there's additional information video information. And we have, I think we have 10 now. My objective is to have 100 of these by 2024 by the time you graduate, and the time, by the time I reach my 90th birthday I'm hoping that we could have 100, you graduate at the same time I reached my 90th. So we'll both celebrate together.

00:52:39
Rachael Wong: Sounds good.

00:52:41
Harold Weaver: Okay. You take good care of yourself and please keep in touch and whatever paperwork you need us to sign let us let us know. Hopefully you have a very good recording, and Cooper has a good recording for us. Cooper is a 2020 graduate of Haverford who has been working with us as a CPGC fellow and then we’ve kept him on after that. So your paths have never crossed. Take good care of yourself now.

00:53:17
Rachael Wong: Alright

00:53:18
Harold Weaver: And thank you very much.

00:53:19
Rachael Wong: Yep, goodbye.

00:53:23
Harold Weaver: All the best to you. Take good care now. Bye-bye.

00:53:28
Rachael Wong: Goodbye.